<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments for Snow is white</title>
	<atom:link href="http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:11:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>Comment on Hesperus, Phosphorus, and Structured Propositions by Tom</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hesperus-phosphorus-and-structured-propositions/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-264</guid>
		<description>That all seems more or less right to me; I don&#039;t think we&#039;re really disagreeing. I share your intuition that (7) and (8) can differ in truth-value and I agree that we should be looking for a theory that respects that intuition.  My worry is that my feeling that the embedded clauses in (7) and (8) are about different things doesn&#039;t help me do that. It&#039;s what the theory needs to respect, not a guide to the content of the theory. I didn&#039;t mean to suggest that it&#039;s not a substantive constraint that may well rule out some theories that have been advanced at one time or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That all seems more or less right to me; I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re really disagreeing. I share your intuition that (7) and (8) can differ in truth-value and I agree that we should be looking for a theory that respects that intuition.  My worry is that my feeling that the embedded clauses in (7) and (8) are about different things doesn&#8217;t help me do that. It&#8217;s what the theory needs to respect, not a guide to the content of the theory. I didn&#8217;t mean to suggest that it&#8217;s not a substantive constraint that may well rule out some theories that have been advanced at one time or another.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Hesperus, Phosphorus, and Structured Propositions by Chris Tillman</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hesperus-phosphorus-and-structured-propositions/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-263</guid>
		<description>I did not mean to suggest that aboutness considerations would help distinguish 1 and 2. I agree that nothing distinguishes them. But whatever we use to help explain away the seeming disagreement in truth values between 1 and 2 could potentially be used by a more coarse-grained theorist than a Millian structured proposition theorist to argue that the more coarse-grained propositions are really not distinct. I thought that was your point with 5 and 6. So if we think propositions are sets of worlds, for instance, and we assume a standard relational account of attitudes then we have to say that 7 and 8 cannot differ in truth value:

7. Jim believes that 2+2=4
8. Jim believes that if a function f is continuous on the interval (a,b) and if F is a function whose derivative is F on the interval (a,b) then the integral from a to b of f-of-x with respect to x equals F-of-b minus F-of-a

So why not use whatever structured proposition Millians use to explain the apparent difference between 1 and 2 to explain the apparent difference between 7 and 8? I think there are two answers. One is that there is a clear sense in which the &#039;that&#039;-clauses in 7 and 8 involve claims about different things. To the extent we can respect this, we should. The second is that it seems clear that Jim might have what it takes for 7 to be true, given his cognitive sophistication, while lacking what it takes for 8 to be true. Neither of these points apply to 1 and 2 however. But the issue, I thought, was whether something stops us from extending proposals dealing with 1 and 2 to 5 and 6 or 7 and 8. And I think there is: aboutness and cognitive sophistication. That isn&#039;t a statement of the problem; it&#039;s the reason why we should not extend Millian structured propositionalist strategies to deal with 1 and 2 to more coarse-grained theories of propositions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not mean to suggest that aboutness considerations would help distinguish 1 and 2. I agree that nothing distinguishes them. But whatever we use to help explain away the seeming disagreement in truth values between 1 and 2 could potentially be used by a more coarse-grained theorist than a Millian structured proposition theorist to argue that the more coarse-grained propositions are really not distinct. I thought that was your point with 5 and 6. So if we think propositions are sets of worlds, for instance, and we assume a standard relational account of attitudes then we have to say that 7 and 8 cannot differ in truth value:</p>
<p>7. Jim believes that 2+2=4<br />
8. Jim believes that if a function f is continuous on the interval (a,b) and if F is a function whose derivative is F on the interval (a,b) then the integral from a to b of f-of-x with respect to x equals F-of-b minus F-of-a</p>
<p>So why not use whatever structured proposition Millians use to explain the apparent difference between 1 and 2 to explain the apparent difference between 7 and 8? I think there are two answers. One is that there is a clear sense in which the &#8216;that&#8217;-clauses in 7 and 8 involve claims about different things. To the extent we can respect this, we should. The second is that it seems clear that Jim might have what it takes for 7 to be true, given his cognitive sophistication, while lacking what it takes for 8 to be true. Neither of these points apply to 1 and 2 however. But the issue, I thought, was whether something stops us from extending proposals dealing with 1 and 2 to 5 and 6 or 7 and 8. And I think there is: aboutness and cognitive sophistication. That isn&#8217;t a statement of the problem; it&#8217;s the reason why we should not extend Millian structured propositionalist strategies to deal with 1 and 2 to more coarse-grained theories of propositions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Hesperus, Phosphorus, and Structured Propositions by Tom</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hesperus-phosphorus-and-structured-propositions/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-262</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris,

I&#039;m not sure I know what you mean by &#039;aboutness&#039;. I can understand someone saying that propositions are about different things if they have different constituents, assuming that they have constituents. That seems right and helps with (5) and (6) but not (1) and (2). But that&#039;s just what we&#039;ve been talking about. 

I share the feeling that we ought to distinguish necessarily equivalent claims, for instance that&#039;s a good reason to think that propositions aren&#039;t functions from worlds to truth-values. That feeling might be sharpened a little by putting it in terms of these claims being about different things. Is that what you were getting at? That still sounds to me like statement of the problem rather than something that helps to solve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I know what you mean by &#8216;aboutness&#8217;. I can understand someone saying that propositions are about different things if they have different constituents, assuming that they have constituents. That seems right and helps with (5) and (6) but not (1) and (2). But that&#8217;s just what we&#8217;ve been talking about. </p>
<p>I share the feeling that we ought to distinguish necessarily equivalent claims, for instance that&#8217;s a good reason to think that propositions aren&#8217;t functions from worlds to truth-values. That feeling might be sharpened a little by putting it in terms of these claims being about different things. Is that what you were getting at? That still sounds to me like statement of the problem rather than something that helps to solve it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Hesperus, Phosphorus, and Structured Propositions by Chris Tillman</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hesperus-phosphorus-and-structured-propositions/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Tillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Hi Tom,

Purely pragmatic explanations fail: see David Braun&#039;s &quot;Cognitive Significance, Attitude Ascriptions, and Ways of Believing&quot;. But there are other options for proponents of the view. 

The main reason, I think, for not extending Braun&#039;s or Salmon&#039;s proposal to 5 and 6 has to do with aboutness. Intuitively, propositions that are logically or necessarily equivalent are not therefore about the same things. We can and should respect that when theorizing about propositions and our attitudes toward them. Another related point is that it seems that one could have the belief that Christine won but not that she neither lost nor failed to complete since one might lack the cognitive sophistication or relevant relations to the community to grasp the latter, but that is not an impediment to grasping the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tom,</p>
<p>Purely pragmatic explanations fail: see David Braun&#8217;s &#8220;Cognitive Significance, Attitude Ascriptions, and Ways of Believing&#8221;. But there are other options for proponents of the view. </p>
<p>The main reason, I think, for not extending Braun&#8217;s or Salmon&#8217;s proposal to 5 and 6 has to do with aboutness. Intuitively, propositions that are logically or necessarily equivalent are not therefore about the same things. We can and should respect that when theorizing about propositions and our attitudes toward them. Another related point is that it seems that one could have the belief that Christine won but not that she neither lost nor failed to complete since one might lack the cognitive sophistication or relevant relations to the community to grasp the latter, but that is not an impediment to grasping the former.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Hesperus, Phosphorus, and Structured Propositions by Tom</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hesperus-phosphorus-and-structured-propositions/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-259</guid>
		<description>I realised after posting that of course it was never on the cards for a SP view to distinguish (1) and (2). On the other hand it does distinguish some pairs, such as
(5) Tom believes Christine won the race.
(6) Tom believes that Christine neither lost nor failed to compete in the race.
on the grounds that different propositions are expressed. The same for mathematical beliefs etc. Now I wonder whether, if (1) and (2) get distinguished pragmatically anyway, why not use that story for (5) and (6)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realised after posting that of course it was never on the cards for a SP view to distinguish (1) and (2). On the other hand it does distinguish some pairs, such as<br />
(5) Tom believes Christine won the race.<br />
(6) Tom believes that Christine neither lost nor failed to compete in the race.<br />
on the grounds that different propositions are expressed. The same for mathematical beliefs etc. Now I wonder whether, if (1) and (2) get distinguished pragmatically anyway, why not use that story for (5) and (6)?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Hesperus, Phosphorus, and Structured Propositions by rafal</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/hesperus-phosphorus-and-structured-propositions/#comment-258</link>
		<dc:creator>rafal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-258</guid>
		<description>Not sure about King&#039;s view, but  some people who tend to accept a variant of the structured proposition view would rather bite the bullet and say that those sentences don&#039;t differ in truth value. Then, of course, the challenge is to explain away our intuitions that they do. A classic example, I think, is Nathan Salmon (check out his &quot;Frege&#039;s puzzle&quot;). Also, take a peek at &quot;Propositional attitude reports&quot; at Stanford Encyclopedia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure about King&#8217;s view, but  some people who tend to accept a variant of the structured proposition view would rather bite the bullet and say that those sentences don&#8217;t differ in truth value. Then, of course, the challenge is to explain away our intuitions that they do. A classic example, I think, is Nathan Salmon (check out his &#8220;Frege&#8217;s puzzle&#8221;). Also, take a peek at &#8220;Propositional attitude reports&#8221; at Stanford Encyclopedia.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Armchair knowledge of possible worlds? by Tom</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/armchair-knowledge-of-possible-worlds/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-248</guid>
		<description>I have the following naïve worry: The more possible worlds are like distant regions of our actual world, the more puzzling it is to say we have knowledge of them from the armchair. Assuming claims about distant regions of our world are established empirically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have the following naïve worry: The more possible worlds are like distant regions of our actual world, the more puzzling it is to say we have knowledge of them from the armchair. Assuming claims about distant regions of our world are established empirically.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Armchair knowledge of possible worlds? by Tom</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/armchair-knowledge-of-possible-worlds/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-247</guid>
		<description>That may well be right. I think the point is that many people want to maintain that we know a priori what we are thinking. It may be that externalism is a threat to that, as people have indeed argued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That may well be right. I think the point is that many people want to maintain that we know a priori what we are thinking. It may be that externalism is a threat to that, as people have indeed argued.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Armchair knowledge of possible worlds? by Colin Caret</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/armchair-knowledge-of-possible-worlds/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Caret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-246</guid>
		<description>Maybe I am being dense here, but frankly how in the world (forgive the terrible pun) are we supposed to have discovered the existence of possible worlds *other than* from the armchair? The Lewisian argument for the existence of possible worlds draws that conclusion from Quinean theses about ontological commitment plus the linguistic data that we believe that there are other ways the world might have been. Even actualists like Stalnaker grant that Lewis&#039; argument establishes some kind of commitment. Do you mean to suggest that we somehow know of the existence of possible worlds *empirically* or do you simply mean to suggest that there is something problematic about gaining knowledge of the existence of possible worlds via the type of reasoning in the example you sketched?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I am being dense here, but frankly how in the world (forgive the terrible pun) are we supposed to have discovered the existence of possible worlds *other than* from the armchair? The Lewisian argument for the existence of possible worlds draws that conclusion from Quinean theses about ontological commitment plus the linguistic data that we believe that there are other ways the world might have been. Even actualists like Stalnaker grant that Lewis&#8217; argument establishes some kind of commitment. Do you mean to suggest that we somehow know of the existence of possible worlds *empirically* or do you simply mean to suggest that there is something problematic about gaining knowledge of the existence of possible worlds via the type of reasoning in the example you sketched?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Armchair knowledge of possible worlds? by Aidan McGlynn</title>
		<link>http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/armchair-knowledge-of-possible-worlds/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Aidan McGlynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowiswhite.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-244</guid>
		<description>Stephen Yablo discusses this kind of problem in his paper in Boghossian and Peacocke&#039;s &#039;New Essays on the A Priori&#039;. You might want to check it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen Yablo discusses this kind of problem in his paper in Boghossian and Peacocke&#8217;s &#8216;New Essays on the A Priori&#8217;. You might want to check it out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
